Turnbull China Bikeride/Turnbull China Bikeride - Disc 2.iso/BARNET/ARMLINUX/MAIL/9804/000109_owner-linux-arm…r.rutgers.edu _Mon Apr 20 23:48:50 1998.msg

Internet Message Format | 1998-05-13 | 6KB

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From: Russell King - ARM Linux Admin <[e-mail]>
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Subject: Re: Installing on an 4 MB A5000
To: [e-mail] (James Craig)
Date:     Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:13:22 +0100 (BST)
Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
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In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]> from "James Craig" at Apr 20, 98 10:44:00 am
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James Craig writes:
> Yep, I know about this problem. It's a bit of a problem (understatement of
> the century) but we're more likely to be able to manage when the installer
> is just a tar+gunzip, instead of some weird format that stores huge heaps
> of completely useless info.

That's where you're wrong.  You're talking about tar + gunzip + sh + installer.
With RedHat, you've just got the installer and cpio.  There's nothing more
to it.

> The slackware packages include the scripts too - If you look closely at a
> slackware package, it contains a install/script file usually which handles
> installation. Most slackware packages uninstall fairly cleanly too. The
> other *BIG*, in fact *HUGE* advantage is that you can get away with no
> installer whatsoever. The good old fashioned sash shell (stand-alone
> shell) includes tar in it - and compiles perfectly for the ARM leaving
> bucketloads of RAM free even on a 4M machine. You can just use it's
> built-in tar command to unpack the slackware packages - it works great.

And if you want to teach Joe Bloggs how to use it, then go ahead.  But that's
not the end of it - it's all well untaring, but what about these installation
scripts you mentioned.  You have mentioned that you can unpack the sources,
but what about the next stage.

> I don't really think people who are smart enough to get it to even *boot*
> are going to have much trouble figuring out that the need to install perl
> before they can use a perl script. Not to forget, of course, RPM is truly
> hideous to use anyway. Trying to do anything other than one of the
> predefined action is seriously fiddly, and you don't stand much change
> of getting an RPM port to other OSs to let you modify packages before
> installing them - e.g. seperating individual files out to fit them onto
> 720K floppies.. Also - removing a package which other programs are using
> isn't smart usually - but you need to do it to make a decent job of upgrading
> versions on something. I'd much rather it just shut up and got on with it. :)

Well then, you should just make sure you use the --nodeps option everytime.
The dependencies are provided for people who may not realise the ramifications
of the action that they are about to perform.

I'd like to ask you a couple of questions at this point.  Have you tried
creating a distribution?  Have you tried making a RedHat package?

If the answer to these questions is no, then I would suggest that you try
this *before* commenting on it, since you're trying to talk about a subject
that you have only half if not less of the total facts about.

You forget, I *have* tried the tar method.  I *have* tried the RPM method.
I know what a pain the two are.  I know the problems that each one cause.
I know the benefits of each.  I know this because I have had *experience*
of them both.

As someone who has spent half a year creating the ARM Linux distribution,
I really *KNOW* how difficult it is to create a distribution.  It is not
a trivial matter, and without the RPM system, it would not be here today.
I *KNOW* where the problems lie.

Now, stop arguing about something that is IRRELLEVENT and discuss SENSIBLY
THE REAL PROBLEM AT HAND - how to get AN installer to work in 4MB, not
I DON'T LIKE REDHAT AND THATS WHY IT DOESN'T WORK.

> My commiserations to your friend, losing his soul to the dark side of
> Linux. He's fallen in with evil companions. ;)

Not at all - he was going to use a tar file, until I explained RPMs to
him.  He immediately saw the enormous advantages that a RPM gives you
over a simple tar.gz file.
   _____
  |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+-
  |   |        Russell King       [e-mail]      --- ---
  | | | |  http://www.arm.uk.linux.org/~rmk/armlinux.html    /  /  |
  | +-+-+                                                     --- -+-
  /   |               THE developer of ARM Linux              |+| /|\
 /  | | |                                                     ---  |
    +-+-+ -------------------------------------------------  /\\\  |

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